TIF and TEDD 101

The commissioners recently approved the creation of a new targeted economic development district, at the site of an old gravel pit between Reserve St. and I-90. These districts, often referred to as TEDDs, use tax increment financing to invest in necessary improvements to infrastructure.

Have we lost you already? There’s a lot of confusion around what increment financing does or does not do. This week, the commissioners sat down with Andrew Hagemeier, director of Community and Economic Development, to get to the bottom of TEDDs and TIF.

Related links:

• Grant Creek Crossing TEDD
• Wye 2 TEDD

Thank you to Missoula's Community Media Resource for podcast recording support!

Transcript

Josh Slotnick: [00:00:10] Welcome back to the agenda with your Missoula County Commissioners. I'm Josh Slotnick and I'm joined here by my friends and fellow commissioners Dave Strohmaier and Juanita Vero. And today we have a very special guest, Andrew Hagemeier, who is the. What's your official title? Andrew.

Andrew Hagemeier: [00:00:24] The community and economic development director for Missoula County. Great.

Josh Slotnick: [00:00:28] Nice. Thanks, thanks. Well, glad everybody is here. Who wants to kick this off?

Juanita Vero: [00:00:33] Yeah, I'll just jump right in with. What's the most confusing thing about your office? Um, not not the physical architecture.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:00:41] Yeah.

Juanita Vero: [00:00:41] Let's talk about, like.

Josh Slotnick: [00:00:42] Labyrinth of hallways. Yeah.

Andrew Hagemeier: [00:00:44] So not the physical space itself, but our office manages two different programs. One is the five now six targeted economic development districts in Missoula County, which is a mechanism of tax increment financing, and then our county housing program. So housing is easy to explain. I still have not figured out a way to explain what I do to my mother.

Andrew Hagemeier: [00:01:04] Regarding tax increment financing.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:01:06] So is there a broader, though just economic development component since since targeted economic development districts are a tool, a tool for economic development?

Andrew Hagemeier: [00:01:16] Yeah. I mean, I get involved with all sorts of things, you know, that deal with general economic development. It's really when it comes to economic development generally across the county. It's a lot of partnerships. We have some really good partner organizations that also focus on economic development, and I'm really involved with those organizations like what's.

Juanita Vero: [00:01:33] An example, Missoula.

Andrew Hagemeier: [00:01:34] Economic partnership. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I mean, I am interacting with them practically on a daily basis, including right after this. I run over there. Yeah. Wait, let's.

Juanita Vero: [00:01:42] Go back to your mom. Like what? How how do you explain what a TEDD is?

Andrew Hagemeier: [00:01:46] You know, I've been trying and trying to simplify how I explain to this because it is so complicated. But it's a mechanism to finance infrastructure that local governments have to finance public infrastructure. So things like roads, sewer, water, Sidewalks and broadband. Technically, I think broadband might be. We haven't done that as far as I know in Missoula County, but maybe we have. But not since I've been around. It's a really unique tool, because most of the financing mechanisms that counties have to fund public infrastructure, we have to raise new revenues. Correct. Right. So we have to go out and we have to ask the taxpayer for money. We have to go out and ask the user for money. But this this is unique in state law because what it allows us to do is actually leverage future tax dollars. So instead of having to ask for new monies, we get to borrow against future tax revenues. How this might work in the real world is development team wants to put in a new road to access their property so they can develop it. This will be a public road open to the public. This is typically how it works is they self-finance that construction. So they they go to the bank and they get a loan to build that road. Building that road then allows these lots to be developed. Those lots get developed. The property taxes write, the value of those property goes up. The taxing what the tax increment finance district says is that new value created by that development stays within that district. So the bank knows that we're going to have this future tax base, and we're able to go out and get a bond to pay back that infrastructure.

Josh Slotnick: [00:03:20] Can I can I give this a shot in total layperson language?

Andrew Hagemeier: [00:03:23] And wasn't that layperson language like.

Josh Slotnick: [00:03:25] Almost.

Andrew Hagemeier: [00:03:26] Almost.

Juanita Vero: [00:03:27] What's your mom's name? What's your mom's.

Andrew Hagemeier: [00:03:28] Name? Yeah. Gretchen. Gretchen.

Josh Slotnick: [00:03:30] Let me let me give this a shot and fill it in. Yeah. So I think of this is the TEDD is the place. Yeah. Targeted economic development district in the city. It's a URD, A urban renewal district. It's a district. It's a place you draw a circle on a map, and everything inside that circle is inside the TEDD. The mechanism is the TIF tax increment financing. So we're using a combination of place and time. We just described the place, the time as we set a baseline for taxes. We're going to say the year 2024. And in this mythical district here, it's as big as this piece of printer paper in 2024. The property taxes that came out of this for all jurisdictions equaled $1 million in 2025. Changes happened. Somebody built something, values went up. Now it's $1.1 million. That new $100,000 does not go back to the taxing jurisdictions. Instead, it stays in a fund to be used on infrastructure projects inside that district. And this mechanism remains in place for a set amount of time 20 years or so. And that's basically how it works. And when you mention bonding, in my mind, if we get $100,000 this year and we use and we build some roads or build some sewer, build some whatever, that's going to spur or catalyze more development, and we'll see property values go up and we could borrow against those, as you're saying, borrow against those future increases in property taxes and use that bond to do really big things like build an arterial road grid or bring sewer throughout the district.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:04:53] And basically the property owners in that district are bankrolling the infrastructure. Exactly.

Josh Slotnick: [00:05:00] And as Andrew said, not with new money. They're paying the same taxes they would otherwise. Taxes don't go up, right? It's just that the amount that goes up each year doesn't go back to the jurisdictions to be used for whatever that increment, that amount that goes up, stays in a fund to be used only inside this district for a small set of purposes.

Andrew Hagemeier: [00:05:16] Yeah, just for public infrastructure. And basically that $100,000 went from one 1 million to 1.1 million. We then know we're getting $100,000 for the life of that district, right? So we're bonding on that future tax dollar.

Juanita Vero: [00:05:30] And we know that. What are the risks then? So I mean future can be unpredictable. So then. Yeah, I mean what are the safeguards.

Andrew Hagemeier: [00:05:35] So the the state doesn't allow us to bond if we don't have the money. But yeah, you could have a meteorite hit Missoula and wipe out all the property in that area. And then the property values would be zero.

Josh Slotnick: [00:05:46] But Yellowstone supervolcano.

Andrew Hagemeier: [00:05:48] Yeah. Supervolcano.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:05:49] We would at least need the increment to cover the debt service.

Andrew Hagemeier: [00:05:52] It's required.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:05:53] So basically we would be taking out a loan to pay for the infrastructure. And the payment on that loan is the increment is the increment is the future.

Andrew Hagemeier: [00:06:02] Yeah. It's. Yeah, exactly.

Josh Slotnick: [00:06:04] It's the.

Andrew Hagemeier: [00:06:04] Increment. And which is so much different than other ways to fund public infrastructure. And so we're able to use these TEDD's these districts, this geographic area for some really unique situations. Like someone might say the difficult properties that.

Juanita Vero: [00:06:17] Blighted properties.

Andrew Hagemeier: [00:06:18] Blighted properties.

Josh Slotnick: [00:06:19] Let's put infrastructure deficient properties that pose some big obstacles.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:06:23] Let's let's put a face on this and maybe use a success story. Yeah, because there is this targeted economic development district that we just had some lengthy discussions on recently. And we can talk about that too. Out by Grant Creek. But maybe, maybe pick one of your favorite success stories of a TEDD.

Josh Slotnick: [00:06:40] Bonner.

Andrew Hagemeier: [00:06:40] Yeah. Bonner. Bonner is a perfect example. We had a stud mill there, right? I think they did studs. Wasn't it like plywood, plywood, plywood and studs? It was. I think their planar facility at one point was the largest planer mill in the entire world. Right? There were hundreds, I think, close to 1200 jobs there. When I was a kid. It was in the 800. It was like six, 800 range. Right. That closed in something like 2006, 2008. It sat there kind of vacant for a few years. Some Missoulians, some folks from Missoula stepped in and said they bought it, and they wanted to reinvigorate this location as a as an industrial center because it's perfect for that, right? With the infrastructure it has there. They, with the county, created a tax increment finance district that targeted economic development district for the Bonner Mill. And so that has led to improvements that have then led to job creation. Kettlehouse amphitheater. So community benefits things that that have really changed the course of not.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:07:36] To mention the Kettlehouse beer. The beer. There's the beer and there's the beer and music.

Andrew Hagemeier: [00:07:41] And there are more jobs there today than there were in the last few years that the mill was running.

Josh Slotnick: [00:07:47] And I would say that's really important that there are more jobs. It's also important that these jobs are diverse across industries, and that economic system is by definition, more resilient. It's not hanging on a thread based on one set of economic circumstances related to the wood products industry, which is fantastic. We love the wood products industry, but there's I don't know how many 6 or 8 different industries represented out there.

Andrew Hagemeier: [00:08:08] At least I can't even last time we did a tour of their facility, I can't even count.

Josh Slotnick: [00:08:12] It's so impressive.

Andrew Hagemeier: [00:08:13] And they're making candy there.

Juanita Vero: [00:08:14] Yeah, candy.

Josh Slotnick: [00:08:15] And soap and siding and trailers and other stuff too. It's it's a little microcosm of a diverse economy.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:08:22] So and one most recent examples, I think, of effectively using the tax increment there was to help with the removal of some of the contaminated soil that was kind of stockpiled acres. Yeah, I love the.

Juanita Vero: [00:08:35] Three acre pile.

Josh Slotnick: [00:08:36] It was called the repository. The repository could be a repository of it. It could be. It could be like antique books. Three acres.

Andrew Hagemeier: [00:08:42] It was three acres of pollution. Right. Exactly what how that worked is the landowner financed the removal of that to the tune of, I think, 4 million. It was millions of dollars. Right. They were able to do that. They were able to go get a loan to be able to do that, because the county had the tax increment finance District, they're able to get a cheaper loan. The tax increment finance district is their collateral. It's the difference between getting a home equity loan and a personal loan. You're going to get a better loan when you have collateral. Well, the tax increment is the collateral. The bank can see that they give them a lower interest rate loan. They clean it up, and then we're able to use the tax increment to pay for that.

Josh Slotnick: [00:09:19] Yeah. We just we just toured a new building on that site. Yeah. Huge huge.

Andrew Hagemeier: [00:09:24] Building. Yeah. And so now we're able to use that three acres of wasteland in 2000, I think 31 when the Ted expires and all of that tax revenue goes back into the general circulation, as I like to call it.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:09:36] And that's an important piece, I think, with all of this is that I guess for some of the critics of this tool or mechanism, they're they're assuming that development and redevelopment would occur without this tool being utilized. And if that were the case, yeah, by all means, let development evolve on its own. But in some of these instances.

Juanita Vero: [00:09:58] Targeted is the operative word.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:09:59] Well, I and I would say this the same thing would likely have played out with the Grant Creek crossing TEDD in that were it not for a tool being utilized like a TEDD, we would likely, decades from now, still see a gravel pit.

Juanita Vero: [00:10:15] Or there's a reason it was vacant for 15 years, exactly in a.

Andrew Hagemeier: [00:10:19] Much more lucrative market to develop to. Right. So, I mean, we're talking about much lower interest rates. I just was at the City Club, and they were talking about how the cost of development has increased. Just materials and labor has increased by 30 to 50% since 20 2019. Yeah. And that's incredible. Incredible. Wow. These were construction companies and developers saying this that this is the type of inflation they've seen this idea that all public infrastructure is developer financed. None of this would exist if the public wasn't contributing towards putting in roads, sewer, water, and some of these projects. The developer can make it work without any tax increment financing. But there are spaces where it just it just doesn't work.

Josh Slotnick: [00:11:06] So we have great examples across our community of TEDDs and URDs being successful in catalyzing development. We see it all around downtown. We can see it in Midtown, see it in Bonner. We're going to see it at the Y. And yet, for sure, our state legislature is going to have tax increment financing squarely in the crosshairs this legislative session. Why do you think that is? And do you have any predictions on what they're going to try and do?

Andrew Hagemeier: [00:11:29] It's not really fully understanding how this tool works and buying into these misconceptions. I mean, obviously it's property taxes and people think it raises property tax and it does not as we've already covered, it does not do that. The tax rate does not change because of a TEDD or a URD.

Juanita Vero: [00:11:48] So when people are saying that, what are they really meaning? I mean, are they trying to say that schools, fire departments aren't going to be funded while this the TEDD is expanding or those 20 years? What are they really trying.

Andrew Hagemeier: [00:12:02] To get out? So all of our, you know, financing tools that we use in local government where we're using tax dollars. I mean, every single one, right. Or a loan or not a loan. A grant which is still tax dollars. Right. I mean, it's just coming from the state or the feds. We're all paying into it. None of them are perfect. They can't be perfect. Like everyone's going to complain about some sort of public funding. So in this situation, it's a known downside and no challenge to tax increment financing. We just we don't hide from that. It freezes the taxable value of an area for the other taxing jurisdictions, including 2024.

Josh Slotnick: [00:12:33] That's the it's for the next 20 years we're going to collect taxes. We at the county are going to collect taxes as if it's 2024, even if it's 2028. Right. And as that area develops, we at the county are responsible for making sure that the folks who live in that area get public safety, have access to the criminal justice system, can visit the health department, can deal with permitting, can enjoy free and fair and well-run elections all the services that we provide. And yet our revenue is frozen at 2024 levels. Level. So there's the.

Andrew Hagemeier: [00:13:01] Pinch. There's the pinch. And we basically have to go through this pinch for the lifespan of the TEDD. Because what happens is, is let's take Grand Creek crossing. If we don't do this right, that probably stays a gravel pit for 15 more years. And in 15 more years, we're still talking about how to develop this property, right? But we can create this, TEDD. We can fund the infrastructure.

Juanita Vero: [00:13:21] Folks might not know what Grand Creek Crossing is. That's 86 acre here. Go ahead. Yeah.

Andrew Hagemeier: [00:13:25] You just created it last week. It's a new targeted economic development district up on Reserve Street right off I-90. It's a closed gravel pit now. It's been reclaimed. It's just a big knapweed field. So we're going to invest through the TEDD to build water, sewer roads. That's going to enable a much higher intensity development could have ever occurred there without water, sewer and roads, if any development would occur there without water, sewer and roads. When that TEDD expires, that investment is going to generate significant more tax revenue than if we would have done nothing. And that is then permanent forever.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:13:57] And that is the key premise, is that this development would not occur were it not for leveraging these increment dollars back into the infrastructure.

Josh Slotnick: [00:14:06] There's two returns on this public investment. One of them is the additional tax revenue that comes from the development. That would not happen were it not for the TEDD. The second return is the development itself, where there are new jobs created, more money put into the economy, more activity, more vibrancy, more of all of what the.

Andrew Hagemeier: [00:14:24] State of Montana benefits through it, through additional sales tax, not sales tax.

Juanita Vero: [00:14:29] Yeah. Holy smokes. People get twitchy. He just created a sales tax.

Andrew Hagemeier: [00:14:33] Income tax? Sorry. Yeah. Yeah. So what's unique about the Grand Creek crossing property is it's 86 acres in essentially 3 or 4 parcels. And it's right on two major transportation networks, North Reserve I-90. And it's essentially, you know, surrounded by urban footprint. So it's in in the middle of our urban, of our urban landscape. And those types of properties are essentially nonexistent. They are found way out of town. Greenfield type stuff, right? So miles away from town, that presents the opportunity to actually do an infill project that targets larger uses, that require a larger footprint than you would be able to get in downtown or in Midtown or another. Pretty much very few places left in the city are, you know, that are like that. So what will likely happen here with Grant Creek Crossing is they will attract tenants that are from the Midtown area, for example, of Missoula that are looking to expand, expand. Yeah. So they want to grow their business. But, you know, they're on a three acre lot in the middle of, you know, they have no option.

Juanita Vero: [00:15:37] You can't go anywhere. Right.

Andrew Hagemeier: [00:15:38] So they're going to be able to relocate to this location rather than ten miles out of town in a greenfield site. Right. Which then opens up that parcel in Midtown also for redevelopment. Right. So we're kind of getting this this is a pretty unique that we're getting this two for one out of it. Right. Potentially. Yeah.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:15:56] Is there any ability for us to help direct the type of development that will occur within a TEDD.

Andrew Hagemeier: [00:16:02] We do have a little bit of that. I mean, obviously the zoning.

Josh Slotnick: [00:16:05] Zoning. Yeah.

Andrew Hagemeier: [00:16:06] Yeah. But there's a little bit more that there are parameters within the state law on TEDD. And it's for industry is one category of use. And then it also goes towards uses that support our tourism and recreation industry in Montana. So that was a change that the legislature made I think two sessions ago, recognizing that tourism and recreation was the largest sector in our economy in the state of Montana. Now, now counties can use TEDDs to help support our tourism recreation.

Juanita Vero: [00:16:35] What's an example? Yeah.

Andrew Hagemeier: [00:16:36] Ray could be a tour like they're supporting. So?

Juanita Vero: [00:16:40] So an industry, that industry that works. Okay.

Andrew Hagemeier: [00:16:43] Or or say a mechanic, a car mechanic. Right. Tourism? Yeah. Because you need car mechanics to support your tourism industry. Because when someone gets a flat tire, they need to call triple A and get towed, right?

Juanita Vero: [00:16:55] So what? Couldn't go there then?

Andrew Hagemeier: [00:16:58] Off the top of my head. I mean, like, uh, an office accountant. I mean, they can locate there, but they can't benefit from the tax increment financing. So an accountant doesn't necessarily, uh, you maybe make a hard stretch.

Juanita Vero: [00:17:11] Uses accountants.

Andrew Hagemeier: [00:17:12] They can have, like, anyone can have an accountant, but the purpose of their business is is recreation, right? But an accountant necessarily want to.

Josh Slotnick: [00:17:19] Go too far down this road because it's not just tourism and recreation. It's industry.

Juanita Vero: [00:17:23] It's industry. Yeah.

Josh Slotnick: [00:17:24] Industry. So? So it's like a brewery.

Andrew Hagemeier: [00:17:26] Yeah.

Josh Slotnick: [00:17:26] Perfect. So we want to go back to the legislature is going to take aim at Tiff as a mechanism and TEDDs and URDs as spaces. Why. And you said it was a bit of misunderstanding. And then what what are they going to try and do? What's your prediction?

Andrew Hagemeier: [00:17:39] I think they're going to try to restrict the definitions to so to, to be smaller. Right. So less flexibility. Some of that might be good. You know I'm not afraid of changes I think it's good to like look in the mirror and reflect on, you know, what you're doing right and what you're doing wrong. And if if something's not making sense to fix it.

Juanita Vero: [00:17:58] So is there an example anywhere in the state with it.

Andrew Hagemeier: [00:18:00] Well, I think we're what I what I've heard there. One thing they might do is they. You're currently when a Ted expires, it's counted as new taxable value. Yes. There are two ways. And you might be you're going to be able to explain this a lot better.

Josh Slotnick: [00:18:15] And that's exactly Juan just said it. That's a really big deal because if it's newly taxable it's outside of our mill cap. Right. Which is the amount of money that we can generate from the entirety of the whole county, not from any one property. And our mill cap right now is half the three year average of inflation, which is not enough money to remain in operation. If we could only go up by half the rate of inflation, we wouldn't remain open. Given that we buy asphalt and electricity and fuel and people's time at the full rate of inflation. The only reason we remain in operation and not going backwards annually is because we have newly taxable property. And if we see huge value increase in a Ted, which is what happens and it's not newly taxable, it's pretty hard limiting when that thing comes due as to the revenue required by the county to actually meet the needs of the folks who live in that space.

Andrew Hagemeier: [00:19:04] There you go. Another change, I think, that we might see is a push to exempt more and more levies.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:19:09] And make it mandatory, as opposed to what we did the other day where we just in a discretionary. Could you.

Josh Slotnick: [00:19:14] Describe that? What does that mean to like think of your mom. What does it mean to exempt a levy?

Andrew Hagemeier: [00:19:18] Yeah. So basically what we did with Grant Creek Crossing is, is we got some comments from the fire district and the school districts about how, like, we're not going to get the benefit from the increased revenues, and we've got costs that we've got to worry about too. And so we in this situation, we kind of knew what the infrastructure costs were going to be within this location and what might or might not work. And we were able to determine that if we reduce some levies and we reduce the levies, I think by about 12% of the increment. And so that was like 40% of the fire district's levies and 25% of the school district levies. We exempted that. We can still make this project work, right.

Juanita Vero: [00:19:55] Meaning that the public infrastructure can still be paid for and still be enough.

Josh Slotnick: [00:19:58] Money to do sewer. Yeah.

Andrew Hagemeier: [00:19:59] And so what we mean by exempting levies is, is that the school districts levies will get taxed. They'll be able to use their taxes on this new development like they always do. Right. It doesn't get withheld.

Josh Slotnick: [00:20:09] Instead of that money being withheld in the increment, it goes back to the jurisdiction.

Andrew Hagemeier: [00:20:12] Yeah. And so, you know, they're proposing to actually gain quite a bit from because this development wouldn't happen without this TEDD. So they're getting a nice little bump out of it. But the danger of doing that statewide is every area is different. Every area is different. Infrastructure needs, every area has different development potential and development costs. And so if we're if we do that blanket across the entire state, it's definitely going to make some of these situations not workable. Yeah. Yeah.

Josh Slotnick: [00:20:40] Not workable means they're not going to develop at the fast pace they would if the tiff was in place.

Andrew Hagemeier: [00:20:45] Yeah. And here we are. Right. What are we like the sixth fastest growing state in the country or something like that. Or cities, counties, jurisdictions across the state are absolutely struggling, struggling to keep up with infrastructure demands and the growth we're experiencing. And we also are way behind on the amount of housing we need to provide. And oh.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:21:07] Speaking of which, that is a relatively recent change with TEDD. I remember a point in time where there was no opportunity to have a housing component. Yeah.

Andrew Hagemeier: [00:21:17] So not all the changes that we might see at the legislature are bad, right? So there are good changes to that come out of the legislature allowing it for recreation and tourism. And one but in the last session, they now allow you to use tax increment financing to support permanently affordable housing, not market rate housing, but workforce housing.

Juanita Vero: [00:21:35] But workforce.

Andrew Hagemeier: [00:21:35] Housing. Yeah. Specifically they say workforce housing now.

Josh Slotnick: [00:21:38] And the piece on affordability is yet to be defined.

Andrew Hagemeier: [00:21:42] It's yeah. And it will be up to us to define. And workforce housing is different in Missoula than it is in Jordan.

Josh Slotnick: [00:21:49] And I'm really glad that the legislature left that flexibility, as you just said, different places. It means affordability means something really different.

Andrew Hagemeier: [00:21:56] So we've yet to take advantage of that in Missoula County. We need to make that work. We have to have a development project. A developer saying, I'm building permanently affordable housing and I need some help.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:22:07] One thing across the board allow for greater flexibility, another to make a one size fits all for the state that is more restrictive.

Andrew Hagemeier: [00:22:14] Yeah, yeah. And so I mean, it will be it will be interesting to see how the session plays out. And, you know, there's a lot of folks out there that across a lot of different economic sectors that see the value of tax increment financing and.

Josh Slotnick: [00:22:28] There is some controversy around it. But interestingly, the controversy is in no way red v blue, right? It is this is this this is not about partizanship. It doesn't hit any culture war buttons or anything like that. It's it's it's its own animal.

Andrew Hagemeier: [00:22:41] Yeah. It's interesting isn't it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:22:44] Let's do the nugget.

Juanita Vero: [00:22:45] Are we really already.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:22:47] We are already at the nugget of wisdom.

Juanita Vero: [00:22:49] Beaten the TEDD horse to death. Is there anything. Yeah. Is there.

Andrew Hagemeier: [00:22:54] TEDD horse?

Juanita Vero: [00:22:57] The horse is there. Yeah. Anything else that you want to, you know, make sure that we get on here.

Andrew Hagemeier: [00:23:01] And specifically about TEDDs. I think we've probably touched everything I can think of it.

Josh Slotnick: [00:23:06] Just want to mention that we don't just make these decisions. We have a group of volunteers who have subject matter expertise, called the Missoula Development Authority, that meet regularly and mull on these things and ask hard questions of everyone involved and then make recommendations to us. And we depend on that board in a similar way that the city uses MRA, but different in that. What's MRI Missoula Redevelopment Authority in the city, but different in that we ultimately make the decisions. We listen to recommendations from the MDA and we value their insight.

Andrew Hagemeier: [00:23:35] Yeah, that's absolutely right. Well, okay.

Juanita Vero: [00:23:37] Before we close, can you share with us a good book you've read or a nugget of wisdom you've come across lately? Podcast song poem.

Andrew Hagemeier: [00:23:44] As a planner. Right. That's I mean, where I identify professionally as a land use planner, I would really and especially in knowing the changes that are occurring in Montana right now, I recommend reading Montana High, Wide and Handsome.

Juanita Vero: [00:23:57] Oh. So good. Yeah, that's that's from like 1947.

Andrew Hagemeier: [00:24:01] It absolutely is. It is incredibly beautifully written. It really provides insight to where we are, like how we got to where we are as a state, even though it was written in the 40s. And I think with all the changes that are occurring with this in.

Juanita Vero: [00:24:18] 1937.

Andrew Hagemeier: [00:24:19] Holy cow, as relevant today as it's ever been. So Montana high, wide and handsome.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:24:26] Joseph Kinsey Howard.

Juanita Vero: [00:24:27] Yeah, yeah. Is that.

Andrew Hagemeier: [00:24:28] The author? Yeah. I couldn't remember the author's name.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:24:31] Hey, Andrew. In the 20th century. Thanks, Andrew. Yeah, I appreciate it.

Andrew Hagemeier: [00:24:35] It was. It's always fun.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:24:36] You breathe life into tax increment financing.

Andrew Hagemeier: [00:24:39] I'll let my mom know.

Juanita Vero: [00:24:40] What?

Andrew Hagemeier: [00:24:41] That's what I'll tell her I do.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:24:44] He's a.

Josh Slotnick: [00:24:44] Life breather.

Juanita Vero: [00:24:46] What does she. What does she tell her friends that you do?

Andrew Hagemeier: [00:24:48] I don't know what she's telling them now. I mean, she just.

Josh Slotnick: [00:24:52] He works for the county.

Andrew Hagemeier: [00:24:53] Yeah. She just knows she has to pay her property tax bill. And that's about what her understanding of property tax taxes. So.

Josh Slotnick: [00:25:00] Well, thanks so much for coming by.

Juanita Vero: [00:25:01] Yeah. Of course. Thank you.

Josh Slotnick: [00:25:03] Thanks for listening to the agenda. If you enjoy these conversations, it would mean a lot if you would rate and review the show on whichever podcast app you use.

Juanita Vero: [00:25:11] And if you know a friend who would like to keep up with what's happening in local government, be sure to recommend this podcast to them.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:25:16] The agenda with the Missoula County Commissioners is made possible with support from Missoula Community Access Television, better known as MCAT, and our staff in the Missoula County Communications Division.

Josh Slotnick: [00:25:29] If you have a question or a topic you'd like us to discuss on a future episode, email it to communications@missoulacounty.us to.

Juanita Vero: [00:25:36] Find out other ways to stay up to date with what's happening in Missoula County, go to Missoula.co/countyupdates.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:25:44] Thanks for listening.