Pigs, Pies and Pastures: Extension Agents Can Help

Are you interested in hobby farming but don't know where to start? Maybe you know a kid in your life who wants to get into robotics or animal husbandry? Missoula County extension agents can help you get connected and grow your skills!

Extension agents represent the practical application of research at land grant universities, like Montana State. In Missoula County, we are fortunate to have four agents who specialize in 4-H, family consumer science, horticulture and agriculture.

This week, the commissioners spoke with Campbell Barrett, 4-H extension agent, and Natalie Sullivan, agriculture and livestock extension agent, about what free resources they offer to residents. 

Links mentioned in this episode:

• Land stewards survey
• AgTalks series
• Pasture evaluation program
• Find a 4-H program
• Volunteer with 4-H

Thank you to Missoula's Community Media Resource for podcast recording support!

Transcript

Juanita Vero: [00:00:10] Welcome back to the agenda with your Missoula County Commissioners. I'm Juanita Vero and I'm here with my fellow commissioners and friends, Dave Strohmaier and Josh Slotnick. And today we're joined by two guests from the college and extension office, Campbell Barrett as the extension agent and Natalie Sullivan as our agriculture and livestock extension agent. So welcome to you both. Tell us a little bit about yourselves. And then for folks who don't know what the extension office is, yeah, let us know what that is too.

Natalie Sullivan: [00:00:39] Well, my name is Natalie Sullivan. I am the ag and livestock agent, though I've added equine to that list because that's my first passion and trying to do a lot in to help horse owners in Missoula County manage their land and their horse health. At the same time, when people ask me what my job is at extension, I first describe it as the public education arm of the university, so we are actually considered assistant professors or professors when you're tenured. But we are out in our local communities diving into educational topics that are specific to that community.

Josh Slotnick: [00:01:13] Yeah, but you guys are associated with the land grant university, small college. You know, they've been struggling, but I think they're going to get their feet underneath them. I'm rooting I'm rooting for them I think I think they're going to pull.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:01:22] I'm not so sure about that Josh we'll see.

Josh Slotnick: [00:01:25] We'll see.

Natalie Sullivan: [00:01:26] It's a difficult balance to strike.

Josh Slotnick: [00:01:28] So it's MSU. That's where I was headed. When you guys are working for the land Grant College, which is MSU, not U of M, so a person might wonder if you work for MSU, why are you guys here?

Natalie Sullivan: [00:01:36] Well, every county in the entire country has an extension office. So here in Missoula, we're really fortunate to have four extension agents covering family consumer science for horticulture and then myself, ag and livestock. But no matter where you are in the country, any state, the land grant university of that state oversees a county extension office. Even my in-laws in Atlanta looked up their county office and it happened to be down the street.

Josh Slotnick: [00:02:05] Nice. [00:02:05] And this came out of a federal law, I think, in the 19th century. And the idea here, please correct me if I get this wrong, is that extension agents would extend, I mean, carry knowledge that came out of the university, out to people who were working out in the field in all kinds of occupations, not just growing crops. [00:02:22]

Natalie Sullivan: [00:02:22]  [00:02:22]That's a great way to put it. Agriculture was certainly a big fixture in those early days during the Dust Bowl, but we are the liaison between the researchers that are creating the data and the people who are best able to apply that knowledge to their farms or their fields or their families. [00:02:39]

Dave Strohmaier: [00:02:39] Campbell. Tell us a little bit about yourself.

Campbell Barrett: [00:02:42] Hi, I'm Campbell Barrett. I've been with MSU extension here in Missoula County since January of oh, seven decades ago. This will be my 20th fair with with this outfit. I'm originally from Virginia, where I was briefly an extension agent felt like a long time, but only six years there. Before I moved here. I was a 4H kid at many points in my my youth, mainly in the teenage years as a camp counselor and ambassador, things like that. But I did not have livestock. There are many different projects in 4H that we'll talk about later in the podcast here. That's where I came from.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:03:16] And maybe just to build upon what Natalie and Josh were talking about earlier in terms of what extension is, can you talk to us a little bit about and our listeners out there, a little bit about the relationship between counties and extension agents and and here in Missoula County, there's a pretty tight, close working relationship, but there's funding involved to make sure the extension has a strong presence here in Missoula County. And then there's the staffing piece.

Campbell Barrett: [00:03:46] Yep. Historically, we were referred to as the Cooperative Extension Service, and it was because the funding was cooperative between USDA, the state government and the local governments. And so, of course, over the century plus those things shift. And so the federal portion is much less than it used to be in Montana. The county piece is bigger than in some places, but in Montana, the counties pay a portion of all of the local extension agents salary package, but they also provide facility office space, which in Missoula is probably the best in America because.

Josh Slotnick: [00:04:17] Of course, of course.

Campbell Barrett: [00:04:18] The exploration center.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:04:19] I was worried you were going to say you're living in a dump or something.

Josh Slotnick: [00:04:22] Jerry Marks building. Well.

Campbell Barrett: [00:04:24] Just because my office looks like the facility is fantastic. So, realistically, we have probably the nicest extension office in the Pacific Northwest. At least probably America. Definitely Montana. But the funding is cooperative. And like Natalie said, the folks on campus, the researchers, the instructors, they're campus based. Part of the land grant mission is the research, the teaching and the extension. And so we're an extension of the university out in the community. We live here. We know we are your neighbors. We know the local needs based on our conversations and surveys and different things like that. So we have more of a pulse of what the needs in the community are. So we take than some of the research and things that are being done at the university and apply that to the local scene, whether it's for your kids, for your horses, for your fields, for your crops, for your dogs.

Josh Slotnick: [00:05:12] So, Campbell, I've heard said that 4H may look from the outside like, oh, you're teaching kids how to raise animals, but it's way more than that. It really feels like it's much more about personal growth and development and skill building and community. Can you describe how a kid raising an animal out somewhere is actually personal growth, development and community?

Campbell Barrett: [00:05:31] Sure.

Juanita Vero: [00:05:32] And leadership.

Josh Slotnick: [00:05:33] And leadership.

Campbell Barrett: [00:05:33] And leadership.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:05:34] And I just have to interject here. I was actually in  4H as a kid. No way. Nothing to do with living creatures. I was into rocks and minerals at the time, and that was I don't remember much about it, but I still have the display that I had at the county fair as a kid.

Juanita Vero: [00:05:53] Which was.

Campbell Barrett: [00:05:54] Dropping.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:05:57] Clackamas County, Oregon.

Josh Slotnick: [00:05:58] That is Dave's brief career in hard rock mining.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:06:02] Sorry, sorry.

Campbell Barrett: [00:06:03] No, I hadn't heard that before. That's great. That's great to know, because we do have quite a few kids in the geology project here in Montana, and they go different places. Rockhounding and finding dinosaur and whatever.

Josh Slotnick: [00:06:13] Personal growth, development, leadership.

Campbell Barrett: [00:06:14] Thank you, Josh, for bringing it back home. The different things kids are interested in, their projects, air quotes, projects are, from my view, the the tool to teach those skills that we're trying to teach the communication, the working with adults interview skills, public speaking skills, leadership skills with with the animal projects. And then you have the responsibility of something that is currently alive is depending on you to keep it that way and to train it and to bring it to wherever. If it's a dog project to train, train the dog, or to if it's a horse project or your market animal projects that we see at the fair. So you're learning responsibility. There is money involved. You're learning financial management, you're learning budgeting, but you're also learning skills of what can I do to help this animal be better in its health through nutrition and the feeding or in its condition if you're a horse rider, I'm not a horse rider, so I'll stop right there. But so we're trying to teach what they used to call soft skills. I think it's a different term now, but the things that are going to help these kids succeed in life, how to communicate, how to advocate for your position. They're all in 4H clubs. And if they may be in a committee and or they may be a camp counselor, and one person has this idea, another person has this idea. So they have to argue for their position and work as a team and have relationships with adults in the community, and sit down and interview with an adult to talk about their problem.

Juanita Vero: [00:07:32] Maybe it remind folks what 4H stands for.

Campbell Barrett: [00:07:35] Well, there's four H's, thus four H. The first one is head, the second is heart, the third is hands, and the last one is health. So if you think about sort of the fully developed person, those are four areas.

Josh Slotnick: [00:07:48] Great. Can you think of an example of maybe a kid you worked with when they were kind of young, new to it all, and then watching that person grow and kind of what they were like 4 or 5 years later of of being involved in 4H.

Campbell Barrett: [00:08:00] Yeah, many, but one that I'll just use a first name. Sure. Stella 3 or 4 years ago was brand new to 4H. She did not come in as an eight year old. She was kind of a little older. 11 or 12 through Turner Farms, pumpkin Fest was introduced to the 4H concept, became involved, went to 4H camp and was so homesick and shy we almost sent her home. Campbell is not the best worker of homesick children, but we got her through 4H camp and so then she found about the public speaking contest and she's really good at that now. She this past year spoke in front of many of the legislators in Montana at a 4H legislative breakfast event. She's now the only youth member on the Montana 4H Foundation board. She is a club officer. She's you know, she's one of our local ambassadors. She's recently taken up quilting. All right. She's really taken advantage of the program and has come out of her shell. And she has a goal now to be an attorney. She wants to be in politics. I'm trying to steer her away from that. No offense.

Josh Slotnick: [00:09:00] But.

Campbell Barrett: [00:09:01] It's just a really sharp kid.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:09:02] Offense taken.

Josh Slotnick: [00:09:03] She's welcome to come shadow us any day. No joke. Really. She could come do that.

Campbell Barrett: [00:09:08] She would love.

Josh Slotnick: [00:09:08] That. Spend a day with a commissioner.

Campbell Barrett: [00:09:10] She would love that. So she's a kid who's kind of found a direction. She was struggling in school when she was younger. She found a passion. Or in the current 4H marketing world, she found her spark. And so she is excelling and and I'm sure be as successful as she wants to be in whatever she decides to do.

Josh Slotnick: [00:09:27] That's a great story.

Juanita Vero: [00:09:28] Oh, and classic.

Campbell Barrett: [00:09:30] That's there's thousands of stories like that.

Juanita Vero: [00:09:32] Yeah.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:09:32] So Natalie, earlier you mentioned or you you described extension as the public education arm of the university. How is it that we've got lots of Variety across communities here in the state of Montana, across counties. How is it that you come up with what the education looks like in a given geographic location?

Natalie Sullivan: [00:09:54] That's a great question. I'm still trying to figure it out myself a bit, being just just a year. I think last week was my one year anniversary with this position, but at extension we are big on surveys, so I started at Equine and Livestock Needs Assessment survey that you can find on our website. Maybe we could link it in the podcast or something. If you own land or rent land or lease land and have animals on that land, I would so appreciate giving me some feedback on what what you're looking for, what kind of education, what kind of support, what kind of resources could the community use that are too big for one person to handle on their own?

Dave Strohmaier: [00:10:34] It sounds like you're pretty proactive in reaching out for what the needs are, as opposed to just guessing.

Natalie Sullivan: [00:10:41] Yes, I did grow up in Ravalli County and have five acres.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:10:45] That's okay. Okay. That's okay. We love everyone here in Missoula County.

Natalie Sullivan: [00:10:51] I know I'm hard to love, but, um. I graduated from Montana State University, went out to the Pacific Northwest for almost 15 years and came back. And my husband and I now own five acres with many, many animals. I won't name the number. There's too many. I jumped in the position, kind of having some idea of what the local land stewards and animal husbandry, you know what we needed. So I jumped into some of those topics, especially horses, grazing management plans, or some of the things I was already passionate about. I started the pasture evaluation program last April, and that has been really popular. And what I'm finding is there are so many people in Missoula County that are new to owning land. You know, they move from someplace where maybe they never had more than an acre or half an acre to grow a garden or have any size livestock. A lot of people new to owning animals, they're really interested in having their own chickens, or flock of sheep or goats, having their first horse or raising one steer. So I'm really excited to develop more resources for those folks that are hungry for that information and need the local application, rather than just Google searching something online.

Josh Slotnick: [00:12:05] Or imagine you have to strike a balance in a sense with a lot of the people you work with. Because we have this long tradition of folks living on the land and raising animals, and we also have a whole lot of new people here in the last 15, 20 years. What's it like to kind of work on both sides of that line?

Natalie Sullivan: [00:12:21] That's a great question. I think my observation is that the larger farms and ranches have a lot of resources already. They are approached by sales reps for feed companies or, you know, virtual fencing companies. Or there's how many 1500 nonprofits here based in Missoula, and a lot of them want they're actively seeking out these larger landscapes. [00:12:46] But the little guy, the people like me with five acres, nobody has the resources for them or is paying attention. But I feel really strongly that if you added up all of these ranchettes or formats, whatever you want to call them, the three acres here, five acres, 20 acres here. If you add all that up here in Missoula County, it adds up to an enormous amount of land. And so if we can affect just this small acres all over our communities for healthier soils, you know, better grazing land, more wildlife friendly, bird friendly, better healthy animals, better aware fire mitigation. I mean, there's so many ways that we can possibly impact our properties, our landscapes on that we have on our own property. [00:13:32]

Juanita Vero: [00:13:32] So do you have a story of someone this past year that you've developed a relationship with and helped them through their whatever challenges that they were grappling with on their five acres or.

Natalie Sullivan: [00:13:43] Well, you were there for our first annual Horse Farm tours and storytelling event last fall in September. I was really excited to go out and help Dan and Marge Harper. They were one of the first applicants for my pasture evaluation program. So I went out and he already had a beautiful pasture grazing management plan in place for his horses. But we made some tweaks and improved his productivity and animal health workshop.

Juanita Vero: [00:14:13] And yeah, because they had a kind of a tricky place and it was beautiful. And it was just really neat to see how someone could do the work that they did on small acreage.

Natalie Sullivan: [00:14:23] And yeah, there's nothing like going out and putting your hands on or your eyes on how other people do things with their land and their animals. It's just so much more growth in learning that happens compared to reading about it online or in a book.

Juanita Vero: [00:14:39] I was very envious of their manure management. That's great.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:14:42] So here's a hypothetical and it is truly hypothetical. I go out, purchase 5 or 10 acres, and that 5 or 10 acres is just hardpan with some knapweed growing up. And I decide I want to have a horse too. Again, this is how hypothetical it is. I'm not going to be riding a horse anytime soon. But anyway, so now I have a horse in this five acre pasture and I say to myself, I don't know what the heck I'm doing here. Should I pick up the phone and and call you?

Juanita Vero: [00:15:13] Yes.

Josh Slotnick: [00:15:14] Before you buy the horse.

Natalie Sullivan: [00:15:16] Call our office. Well, actually, I'm. Your situation is that was actually an easier situation than I thought you were.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:15:24] Oh, okay.

Natalie Sullivan: [00:15:25] I mean, one horse. I'm glad you started with just one. That is my first recommendation. Start small. You know, maybe it's a small plot of garden or one small pasture rather than the whole piece. You know, I encourage people to break things down. Start small. You know, if you've never had a grazing plan before, just take your pasture and cut it in half. It doesn't have to be super complicated the first year you grow with the property that you're on for sure. I definitely would recommend calling our office. I'm probably not the perfect person to call and ask about what pesticide or herbicide to use for the knapweed, but we have those people in our office. We have really passionate plant people in the Department of Ecology who can come out and talk to you about, you know, what, native plants or forbs or trees to plant, how to take care of those trees, what to seed in your lawn. And then I can certainly help with the animal husbandry part and how to maybe rotate, rest your pastures in a way that improves the health of that landscape over time. But that's one of the hardest parts about land management is just the time it takes, not just day to day, year in, year out, But if you find yourself, you know, this is a really common situation. People find themselves with an old horse pasture, right? And it's just grazed down to just the nubbins of knapweed. And it's full of rocks and poor fencing. Start with, you know, rebuilding that fencing first introducing a modest amount of animals. And, you know, for every year of abuse on the landscape, I figure you've got to be patient and it takes another three years to improve.

Josh Slotnick: [00:17:00] Oh, that's an interesting equation.

Natalie Sullivan: [00:17:02] Yeah, I hate telling people that because their hearts sink. They want that instant lawn or that instant, you know, Kentucky bluegrass field of horses that they envision in their mind. But it just takes time. But just little steps year after year to improve your knowledge, improve your timing and effectiveness, efficiency on the land with your animals. It pays off in the decades to come.

Josh Slotnick: [00:17:26] Question for Campbell. So for a lot of people who aren't in 4H, their association with 4H is the fair. But that's just a few days a year. Really. What's going on in the world of 4H outside of the fair?

Campbell Barrett: [00:17:37] Yes, that's I would call it the showcase of the work that has happened and in many cases throughout the course of an entire year.

Josh Slotnick: [00:17:44] So what's what's what's the year outside of the fair look like for a 4H kid?

Dave Strohmaier: [00:17:48] For me, it was excavating all those rocks and minerals.

Josh Slotnick: [00:17:51] You're not getting your gravel perfectly.

Campbell Barrett: [00:17:55] Filled in the case here. What? Depends on the project. If a kid is raising.

Josh Slotnick: [00:18:00] Let's make one up. Kids. You raise.

Campbell Barrett: [00:18:02] A.

Josh Slotnick: [00:18:02] Pig.

Campbell Barrett: [00:18:03] To bring to the fair. Most of the kids are going to buy a pig in April. They're going to raise it for four months, bring it to the fair, exhibit it, show it, sell it. They're done for kids raising a steer. It's more of a 10 or 12 month type of product. They'll get them in October or so. Sell them, raise them, sell them, train them, show them in August, and they're done cooking projects. A lot of that's done the night before interviews. They learn throughout the year, they'll go to workshops.

Juanita Vero: [00:18:30] What kind of cooking projects are folks doing?

Campbell Barrett: [00:18:34] There's cooking and baking, which I've learned not from, is not the same thing. A lot of pies are made, a lot of cookies, a lot of, you know, whatever's in their project books, a lot of breads, a lot of, uh, with the baking, you know, whatever your banana breads and all those types of things.

Josh Slotnick: [00:18:50] So these kids are at their home places. Raising these animals or working in their kitchens is their opportunity where they're actually together and kind of a cohort. And is there a leader to some degree? How does that work?

Campbell Barrett: [00:19:01] Yes. For each, for each club. And there are about 15 different for.

Josh Slotnick: [00:19:04] 15.

Campbell Barrett: [00:19:05] Different.

Josh Slotnick: [00:19:05] Clubs.

Campbell Barrett: [00:19:06] In the county. They each have their own personality, but they also each come with their own volunteers when their own personal passions. And many of the volunteers are parents of the kids who are in 4H. But a lot of them have been parents, and now their kids are gone, and they're still volunteering to teach kids how to make a quilt, or how to make a pie, or how to better raise their pigs, or their sheep, or their little baby goats and or the dog project. Several of the projects that are more popular will have county level support our superintendents from the fair. Those volunteers who are a little more knowledgeable than maybe your average parent about raising chickens, or raising rabbits, or training your dogs. They'll we'll have monthly meetings with with those kids so they can come practice. They can ask questions and they can go home with their little homework assignments from whoever's in charge and practice more at home. Or you can bake and cook things every night of the week for your family, so you can do a lot of projects or a lot of practice there.

Juanita Vero: [00:19:59] So if there's a kid who's interested in 4H but doesn't come from that, you know, traditional ag background goats and pigs and steers or whatever, what do you recommend or what do you suggest?

Campbell Barrett: [00:20:09] Well, [00:20:10] there's more than 200 different projects available to kids in 4H in Montana, so I would recommend a parent go to the state 4H website. And that's just Montana for they can surf through the project lists and just find something your kids are interested in, and will either find a volunteer to help them, or if a lot of times parents, if you're in something pretty unique like robotics or in some cases geology, where there aren't a ton of kids in that project, the parents are kind of the project leaders to start with, but we have resources available. There are folks we can find in the community who are interested in helping kids, like the Gem and Mineral Society, and in the area works with a lot of our geology. [00:20:48]

Josh Slotnick: [00:20:49] And volunteerism is a big part of what keeps 4H running.

Campbell Barrett: [00:20:52] It is. I'm one person and there are nearly 500 kids in 4H right now, so 4H would not exist without the volunteers. And so a lot of my time is volunteer management and communicating different things out and trying to match up kids with someone who wants to help kids.

Josh Slotnick: [00:21:06] You said there's 15 different clubs. Does each club have a facility or where do the clubs meet?

Campbell Barrett: [00:21:11] They're meeting in living rooms. They're meeting in churches or meeting in the the exploration center. A couple of them are just spaces in the community that may be available. Fire halls out toward Frenchtown. Churches, Turner farms, their facility. They have probably the largest 4H club in the entire state of Montana. The Blue Mountain 4H club with nearly 100 kids. Wow. And that one club. So. So it sounds like it's everywhere, but it's nowhere.

Josh Slotnick: [00:21:37] Okay.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:21:38] So 4H sounds pretty healthy and vibrant here in Missoula County. How do we compare to 4H and other counties across the state? Are they equally doing equally well, struggling or?

Campbell Barrett: [00:21:50] Well, there's a lot of success in 4H and a lot of counties. Well, the largest 4H program in the state right now is Gallatin County.

Josh Slotnick: [00:21:58] Are you can edit that out, edit that out.

Campbell Barrett: [00:22:02] They have a superstar new energetic 4H agent. The larger communities in Montana have a dedicated person like myself that just does 4H work. In most counties in Montana, they'll have an extension agent and they're answering plant calls, bug calls, doing ag work, doing 4H work, and 4H because of the nature of your kids are involved and there are competitions. You get a lot of interaction from the parents, and it takes up a lot of time for those folks who they're the only person in that county. The larger communities like Missoula, like Gallatin and several others have the luxury of just one 4H agent. That's all I have to do. Well, I have the best 4H admin in the entire state, so.

Josh Slotnick: [00:22:42] Oh great.

Campbell Barrett: [00:22:42] Phoebe does most of the heavy lifting, but no, I do get to work a lot with parents and volunteers, but the day to day interactions of people walking in and out of the office, we have great support here in the county as well.

Juanita Vero: [00:22:53] So if back to that AG kid who doesn't come from an AG background and say if he or she wants wants to raise a steer but doesn't live where right, they have a steer. So how how do they get access to one or opportunities? Well, that's.

Campbell Barrett: [00:23:07] The steer is a great example because I would go back to something Natalie said of Start Small. If you have a kid.

Juanita Vero: [00:23:13] But steer has so much more personality.

Campbell Barrett: [00:23:14] Very ambitious, very ambitious. Yeah. Um, and you want to get into a market animal project and you haven't already made the purchase like Dave with his horse. Um, I would probably recommend someone start with a sheep or a goat. Maybe a pig. Get a year or two under your belt and then move up to one of those, because it's a bigger time commitment. It's a bigger money commitment. If you think that you're going to first year come when when something big at the fair with a steer, you're you're going to be probably disappointed. And we want kids to have successes and build on those successes. And so they would contact our office. I could, you know, I'll quiz them if I have the opportunity ahead of time and maybe steer them in a different direction. But if they're new to 4H, link them up with a club that has that. I know that has good volunteer support for the beef project, for example, we'll quiz them about facilities, things like that, but we match them up with a club for starters that has some good support. But then at the county level, we have superintendents who've been helping with beef project for one of them for longer than I've been here, so we can get those specific questions answered. I've never raised a steer, but I know a lot of folks who have so we can connect them up with good information so that hopefully they have successes as they go along, and not big financial failures and catastrophic emotional events.

Josh Slotnick: [00:24:32] Try and avoid.

Juanita Vero: [00:24:33] That's part of that's part.

Campbell Barrett: [00:24:35] Of.

Juanita Vero: [00:24:35] Life, too.

Campbell Barrett: [00:24:36] We'd like for them to have some success as well. Yeah, that is a soft skill.

Josh Slotnick: [00:24:41] So for a new landowner, let's say somebody recently moved here, buys five acres and they're interested in having a horse or two if they came to you before they did it. So we bought this land. We want to have some horses. What would you recommend they do first?

Natalie Sullivan: [00:24:54] Actually, I have had that question quite a bit this year.

Josh Slotnick: [00:24:57] Imagine somebody out there listening will be like, we have some land. Natalie's out there. Maybe we should buy a horse.

Natalie Sullivan: [00:25:02] And gosh, I love it when people come to me beforehand as well rather than trying to fix a disaster. But number one is would be fencing, you know, good safe fencing appropriate for the species. You're going to need different fencing, whether you're bringing a steer or a herd of goats or two horses. And that's a big financial leap for a lot of people. But that's really important. Along with that is a good sacrifice area.

Josh Slotnick: [00:25:27] What do you mean?

Natalie Sullivan: [00:25:28] Yeah. That's a that's a.

Juanita Vero: [00:25:30] It's where we cut the hearts out.

Natalie Sullivan: [00:25:31] Of.

Josh Slotnick: [00:25:33] Okay.

Natalie Sullivan: [00:25:36] Yeah.

Josh Slotnick: [00:25:36] We sacrificed the hearts somewhere.

Natalie Sullivan: [00:25:40] Uh, thank you for asking. A sacrifice area is also recently at the Western Montana Grazing and AG Conference. Somebody coined it a benevolent space. So it's a space where animals are really concentrated. They're going to spend a lot of time.

Josh Slotnick: [00:25:56] They're going to grind it into nothing.

Natalie Sullivan: [00:25:58] Yeah. You sacrifice.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:25:59] Property. I described that I bought.

Juanita Vero: [00:26:02] Yeah.

Natalie Sullivan: [00:26:02] Yeah. Your whole place.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:26:04] The whole place was a sacrifice zone first.

Natalie Sullivan: [00:26:06] But ideally, you know, sacrifice area might be like 600ft² per horse. And so it's central, you know, hopefully to make chores efficient and easy. It's close to water and the hay storage and a shelter for any species.

Josh Slotnick: [00:26:21] So you got to really thoughtfully decide where you put these things. If you're going to be doing chores in inclement weather Christmas morning. Yeah. You want to be thoughtful about where you put your infrastructure.

Natalie Sullivan: [00:26:33] Yeah. This is something we talked about just on Saturday at our first annual horse grazing workshop, which was absolutely phenomenal. We had Jen Mueller from Grow Wild come out from Gallatin County. So sorry the expertise came.

Josh Slotnick: [00:26:46] I like.

Juanita Vero: [00:26:47] County.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:26:47] Geez.

Josh Slotnick: [00:26:48] That's okay.

Natalie Sullivan: [00:26:49] No. But, um, her and I and Mary Rose Coleman with our Department of Ecology did some lectures about just that. You know how if you are starting from scratch, where do you start? How do you think about these things? So fencing, sacrifice areas, water placement for sure with livestock shelters, hay storage, just where to place those things. Find a veterinarian before you get the animal as well. You know, large animal vets are few and far between, especially with cattle getting that way with horses also. We don't have very many veterinarians that specialize in small ruminants like goats, llamas, sheep. So people have to go quite a ways to find those. So I always tell people, make sure you have at least had a phone call, you know, a conversation with a veterinarian that is at least comfortable with the species that you're interested in before you get one.

Josh Slotnick: [00:27:40] I've heard it said that when placing things, you would place the structure or facilities that you go to every day close to where you live, and then the farther out you go should rhyme with the frequency that you need to be at that place. So you don't put water very far away because you got to go to water every day, right? But something you don't need to go to every day could be on the other side of your field.

Natalie Sullivan: [00:28:02] I've heard it described like laying out your kitchen. You know, the triangle.

Josh Slotnick: [00:28:06] The triangle with the.

Natalie Sullivan: [00:28:07] Stove and the.

Josh Slotnick: [00:28:08] Fridge and the.

Natalie Sullivan: [00:28:09] Fridge. Yeah. You don't want to be taking 20 steps to go, you know, get every little ingredient or check the oven. And a good, efficient farmer ranch does the same thing.

Josh Slotnick: [00:28:20] Yeah. My farming mentor once said, don't build things just just yet. First watch where you go and then make your infrastructure match the rhythms of your labor rather than trying to make your labor match the infrastructure. So be thoughtful and start small and watch where you go. And it turned out to be really great advice.

Juanita Vero: [00:28:41] And the elements, the four Seasons I yeah.

Josh Slotnick: [00:28:45] Where it might be a perfect spot to walk in winter, but not in summer or vice versa.

Juanita Vero: [00:28:50] Vice versa.

Natalie Sullivan: [00:28:50] You made a comment that made me think too about in that first or second year. Or if you're just like becoming more aware of of your land stewardship. And what could be better? I always tell people to observe like know what you have. I'm a big, big fan of Exclosures, which could be as small as like a, you know, three by three space around a tree, or you can exclude your animals and wildlife from a riparian area. But it gives you an idea of let's get all the plants grow up so you can kind of get an idea of what's there that maybe good, maybe bad. What the tonnage potential is on a pasture helps you identify those plants and just creates a nice little micro habitat for insects and, you know, diversity of species. And you can do a soil test to better understand the prospects of your place. You can do some mapping on web soil survey. You can do exclosures ID the plants that your animals are grazing, as well as IDing the noxious or nuisance weeds that are there. And we have resources to do that. At the Department of Extension.

Josh Slotnick: [00:29:59] I was in grad school. I had this question on a test what's the most important year in the life of an orchard? And it was the pre-plant year.

Juanita Vero: [00:30:07] Huh?

Josh Slotnick: [00:30:07] You figure all that stuff out. Water and fencing and soil types and noxious weeds and rhizomatous weeds and everything else.

Natalie Sullivan: [00:30:16] And even if you've been on a place for 20 years, you know, there's a lot of people who've been stewarding their land for a long time. But with a little education, a little shift in perspective, you can start doing those things now. They always say, what best time to start something was yesterday. Next best time is to start today for sure.

Josh Slotnick: [00:30:35] Yeah, we have different weather than we used to too.

Natalie Sullivan: [00:30:37] Yeah, I know that's been really true for me this year. I really count on snow and ice on my pastures to turn horses out, and without it, it's just been a nightmare. You know, horses benevolently confined to sacrifice areas much, much more. So it's a lot more work.

Juanita Vero: [00:30:55] Tell us more about the pasture evaluation program.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:30:57] Yes, absolutely.

Josh Slotnick: [00:30:58] So how do people get involved?

Dave Strohmaier: [00:30:59] How do people get involved in this?

Natalie Sullivan: [00:31:01] This is a program that's really near and dear to my heart, and I'm building out several different parts of it, but I've modeled this pasture evaluation program off of other extension universities like University of Kentucky, Penn State, Texas A&M. What you do is go to our website and fill out our pasture evaluation application. So just Google Missoula County Pasture evaluation program. It'll get you there to Missoula Edu. Org and into that pasture evaluation site. And so I will call you up. Once I get that application, we'll book a time for me to come out to your property. And you know first site visit. We could do a soil test. If the ground's not frozen, we can ID plants, make some suggestions for a rotational grazing system. Or just like we were talking about better farm layout, we're developing more and more pieces to that, including like an evaluation grading system. If you'd like to know, you know, if you're pasture is an, A, B, C, D, E or F, or we can grade that with you using objective monitoring method and then see how that improves over time. We also are doing the annual Horse Farm tour. We're doing that. We've booked that this year. I'm so excited about it. I've booked it out already. September 4th. It's a Friday. We include a storytelling part of that of which Juanita was a part this year and a super big.

Josh Slotnick: [00:32:21] Do it again. More people will go, I promise.

Natalie Sullivan: [00:32:24] You that. Well, think about what kind of you I think you have some great farm story.

Josh Slotnick: [00:32:30] I love that stuff. But none of them involve horses.

Natalie Sullivan: [00:32:32] Well, any stories about land management, land stewardship?

Juanita Vero: [00:32:36] He's written an entire collection of poems. Two, two, in fact. Yes, yes.

Natalie Sullivan: [00:32:42] Okay. I'm calling you up and booking you for September 4th.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:32:46] I once owned a Shetland pony.

Juanita Vero: [00:32:50] Those are tough.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:32:51] Those are tough.

Josh Slotnick: [00:32:52] What if we.

Natalie Sullivan: [00:32:53] Did? Oh, sorry. Other parts of this program. We're going to have a hay farm tour as well. This May, where people can come out and see how hay is actually made and all the, you know, environmental factors and inputs that a farmer has to put in to make good quality hay for their area.

Josh Slotnick: [00:33:10] Are you doing.

Natalie Sullivan: [00:33:10] That? I think we're probably going to start out at Grass Valley Farm in May. He's got quite a bit of different hay, great fields.

Josh Slotnick: [00:33:18] That's such a good idea. Applaud that idea, because so many of the folks who are your clients or students are going to be buying hay. Yes. And all they know is they write a check and they ask a couple of questions. But having an understanding of what it took, what's in it, all the questions they should ask. It's really good.

Natalie Sullivan: [00:33:33] Yeah. My goal is to have a list of hay growers, local and broken out by kind of what they specialize in, what kind of products they have available to him. That was actually the idea I pitched to get this job. It's one of my biggest passions is the forage industry and connecting the horse owners or livestock owners to the forage industry. There's a lot of miscommunication that goes on. There's a big, big gap, and I'm hoping to bridge that. So the hay farm tours, the horse farm tours. Oh, you can also on the topic of hey, we do free nitrate testing in our office for hey growers, they're growing oats or peas or other crops that are prone to accumulate nitrates. Really high nitrates and hey, are toxic to livestock. So we have a really quick system in our office to test for that. And that's a free service to Missoula County. Hey growers. And then we also have a forage probe that people can come and rent and test their hay. The rental part is free. Oh, also part of the pasture evaluation program. We had donated several temporary electric fencing systems. We had Daytimers and Gallagher both individually, donated over $500 worth of temporary fencing equipment that is housed in our office that people can rent. It's a $50 deposit, but you get that back if you return all of our equipment, the solar chargers, the step in posts. We have multiple different types of wires, so you can experiment with the different materials before going down to your local feed store and making a big investment.

Josh Slotnick: [00:35:03] That's such a great idea.

Natalie Sullivan: [00:35:05] Yeah. Yeah.

Josh Slotnick: [00:35:05] Before you make the big investment.

Natalie Sullivan: [00:35:07] Yeah. So I can bring this equipment out to you, to your farm, help you set it up, make some suggestions. You get to rent it for 2 to 4 weeks, depending on the season, and then you return it. And if it works for you, you can go buy those things. The local store.

Juanita Vero: [00:35:22] And how much does pasture evaluation program cost?

Natalie Sullivan: [00:35:25] Free free free free free.

Juanita Vero: [00:35:27] Haha.

Natalie Sullivan: [00:35:28] The most we've charged was 20 bucks for our horse grazing workshop last weekend. And they got like a four course meal. It was really nice. Cheapest lunch ever.

Juanita Vero: [00:35:38] Awesome. That's great.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:35:40] Yeah. So. So while we're talking about 4H, what are some of the top project areas of focus that you see out there?

Campbell Barrett: [00:35:47] Great question. In Montana, 4H and also in Missoula County. 4H the top project is the market jog project.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:35:53] The harket hog.

Campbell Barrett: [00:35:54] Market hog project I don't know. Well, I know why because it's a fairly simple project.

Josh Slotnick: [00:35:58] Delicious because it's delicious.

Campbell Barrett: [00:36:01] Big payday. And there's bacon.

Josh Slotnick: [00:36:03] Yes.

Campbell Barrett: [00:36:04] But in Missoula, we have nearly 100 kids in the archery project. Oh, wow. The shooting sports in general. Definitely more than 100 kids. Archery. Shotgun. The western heritage project. The air rifle project.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:36:17] What is the Western heritage?

Campbell Barrett: [00:36:18] They learn about Western history between 1860 and 1900. The quote old West time frame. But they learn not just about firearms, which is why the kids want to do it, because they get to shoot lever action rifles and pistols and shotguns. But they learn about the clothing, the food, the cultures, the clash of the cultures.

Josh Slotnick: [00:36:38] Um, it's a big story.

Campbell Barrett: [00:36:39] The history of of this region during the Old West period. And they'll make their own clothing. They pick a persona. They get to sort of get quizzed on history from through the eyes of a particular type of business owner or individual who would have been around at that time. It's a great project that probably not enough kids are into because they're scared off by the persona thing. But but then the cooking and the baking and the photography projects, the dog project, rabbits, chickens, those are some of the probably top ten projects in Missoula County. And if a parent is interested and I'm here today more to talk about what 4H does than as a recruitment piece because there's a timing issue. The 4H year starts October 1st, so most kids have been doing 4H work for 2 or 3 months now, and depending on which project, it's definitely not too late because there are lots of projects you still could could get started on. But first I would say whatever search engine you're using, search Missoula County 4H and our phone numbers and names will come up and give us a call to chat about. We can link you up with a 4H club that maybe specializes in the things your kids are interested in. We're not trying to create new interests. I want to know what your kids are interested in because there is a project that matches that. I'll steer you toward a particular 4H club and we'll get you enrolled online. But I would say if you're hearing this and thinking about this for me, for right now, do this as soon as possible. Because there's. The clock's ticking. Things have been happening. The fair is coming up. The eight day fair. And we don't want you to be behind the curve. But you can sign up for 4H at any time. And it's relatively easy online. There's a fee per project because you get a lot of project materials. It's ten bucks per project.

Juanita Vero: [00:38:13] Pretty easy.

Josh Slotnick: [00:38:14] So affordable. Yeah, man, thanks a ton, Campbell. Thanks for all you do. And thank you to Natalie.

Juanita Vero: [00:38:20] So we've we've been told that you have a series of educational events and you've already had a few. So. Yeah. What's coming up?

Natalie Sullivan: [00:38:27] Great. Yeah. Thank you. In February we're doing a farm and ranch insurance speed dating event. And you might ask, how do you speed date with insurance? We're going to have topics specific to farm and ranches so broken out like agritourism, worker's comp, equine boarding and training, general liability, farm equipment, housing, outbuildings. We're going to have an agent specializing in each of those topics, and everybody will be rotating around in groups and have an opportunity to ask questions about, specifically farm and ranch insurance to these various agents. So that's our farm and ranch entrance speed dating event on February 26th. That's a Thursday in March. We're actually going to do a webinar with Montana Department of Public Health and Montana Department of Livestock. I have speakers talking about the highly pathogenic avian influenza.

Josh Slotnick: [00:39:21] Oh, my.

Natalie Sullivan: [00:39:21] So that webinar will be recorded and available to everyone. But if you want to make sure and get the recording or be participating in the live event, make sure you sign up on our website.

Josh Slotnick: [00:39:31] Chickens safe?

Natalie Sullivan: [00:39:32] Yes. In April, we're going to be doing a talk with Montana Department of Ag is sending out Mr. Van Tassel to talk about ground squirrel control and properties. That's, of course, going to be out in Frenchtown.

Josh Slotnick: [00:39:46] At Frenchtown doing some really innovative and.

Natalie Sullivan: [00:39:51] Maybe you can come talk about your old West.

Josh Slotnick: [00:39:54] It's an Old West technique.

Natalie Sullivan: [00:39:56] Oh, dear.

Josh Slotnick: [00:39:56] Yeah, well, on her cell phone, maybe.

Natalie Sullivan: [00:39:58] Some.

Josh Slotnick: [00:39:58] Airgun.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:40:00] During a public meeting.

Josh Slotnick: [00:40:01] From her porch.

Natalie Sullivan: [00:40:04] In May. We're going to do that. Hey. Farm tour. And then in June. June is going to be animal emergency planning month. So great opportunity for folks to become more aware, more knowledgeable about how to prepare their farm and their animals for maybe a big windstorm event, a fire evacuation or a disease outbreak. We had Eehv one was a big scare in the United States this year, and so we actually had a stop travel for all horses in the state of Montana. So just creating more awareness and education around that. And if you miss one of these ag talks as we collect them through the years, I will be placing them in a central spot on our website. So just Google Missoula County AG talks, and for each AG talk I'm going to be listing all the resources that come out from those talks. So whether it be a recording or a website or a person to talk to or worksheet, that's found helpful. So if you miss one of those, just Google AG talks and there should be a lot of resources there.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:41:05] So much good information.

Josh Slotnick: [00:41:07] Yeah. All right. Well before you guys go, we want to ask you our last question in the world of media and culture, as you listen and read and watch things, have you stumbled into something where you thought, man, that was really memorable or there was an idea in there that was really worth relating?

Natalie Sullivan: [00:41:23] I'm so glad you asked this question, because I just found one that I'm really passionate about. Fantastic. Um, it's from a local podcaster here in Missoula named.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:41:32] Would it be the three of us.

Natalie Sullivan: [00:41:33] Perhaps?

Dave Strohmaier: [00:41:34] Well, I am.

Josh Slotnick: [00:41:36] I don't think there were any other podcasts.

Natalie Sullivan: [00:41:38] I was actually listening to your podcast before I started this job. It's very well done and very informative. Thank you. Um, but my new favorite is called Reframing Rural and Megan Torgerson grew up on a farm and ranch in northeast Montana and went out and saw the world. She came back to Montana, and she's on season four of Reframing Rural, and it's just great stories from rural Montana. Season four was all about secession, planning secession stories of five different families around.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:42:07] Montana seceding from the state of Montana.

Josh Slotnick: [00:42:10] Those are those are difficult, really difficult things to do.

Natalie Sullivan: [00:42:14] Yeah.

Josh Slotnick: [00:42:14] But she does a.

Natalie Sullivan: [00:42:15] Really great job. Picky about my podcast, but yours and hers. Reframing.

Josh Slotnick: [00:42:20] Reframing. Rural. Well, we should check that out. Thanks for the recommendation.

Campbell Barrett: [00:42:23] All right, I won't talk podcasts. Whatever you like to listen to yours. Since back when it was a different name.

Josh Slotnick: [00:42:29] Right?

Juanita Vero: [00:42:29] Oh, back when it was tip of the spear. Sorry.

Campbell Barrett: [00:42:32] I didn't know if I was.

Juanita Vero: [00:42:32] Allowed to say.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:42:33] No, you absolutely can.

Juanita Vero: [00:42:35] Yeah.

Campbell Barrett: [00:42:35] Probably the most impactful thing I've read recently by Patrick Lencioni, who writes a lot in the world of, uh, workplace health and business success. It's called the Six Types of Working Getting genius, and it talks about the six different types of work that that energize you, that you get satisfaction out of. And we all have to do some of the different six parts of getting jobs done, but some of them exhaust us, some of them we are not great at, some of them we are awesome at and are energized by. And its six types of working genius are wonder, invention, discernment, galvanizing, enablement, and tenacity. And he defines what those are from coming up with an idea to getting a project completed. And it's been, for me, very informative. I am not the one who's pushing the project over the goal line at the end, and I'm not always the one who's coming up with the idea, but mine were discernment and enablement. Those are my two.

Josh Slotnick: [00:43:30] Fantastic. Would you mind saying the name again?

Campbell Barrett: [00:43:32] This is it's called the Six Types of Working Genius and authors. Patrick Lencioni.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:43:37] That's great.

Josh Slotnick: [00:43:38] Thanks a lot.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:43:39] Yeah.

Josh Slotnick: [00:43:39] Thank you. And thanks a ton for both of you, for all the work you do and for coming here today.

Campbell Barrett: [00:43:43] You bet.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:43:44] Thanks for joining us.

Josh Slotnick: [00:43:45] Thank you. Thanks, everybody.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:43:46] See you next time.

Josh Slotnick: [00:43:47] Thanks for listening to the agenda. If you enjoy these conversations, it would mean a lot if you would rate and review the show on whichever podcast app you use.

Juanita Vero: [00:43:55] And if you know a friend who would like to keep up with what's happening in local government, be sure to recommend this podcast to them.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:44:01] The agenda with the Missoula County Commissioners is made possible with support from Missoula Community Access Television, better known as MCAT, and our staff in Missoula County Communications Division.

Josh Slotnick: [00:44:13] If you have a question or a topic you'd like us to discuss on a future episode, email it to communications@missoulacounty.us.

Juanita Vero: [00:44:21] To find out other ways to stay up to date with what's happening in Missoula County, go to Missoula.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:44:28] Thanks for listening.